Jump to content

Edit Style
Primary: Sky Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Secondary: Sky Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Pattern: Blank Waves Squares Notes Sharp Wood Rockface Leather Honey Vertical Triangles
Welcome to theArmpit.net // forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account
Photo

The "The Demo Was Better" Argument

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1
Jave

Jave

    #1207

  • Moderators
  • 19,738 posts
That's basically it. I have seen this a lot around here. Certain songs get that sentence thrown out there. Now one thing I can't understand is about the sound. Someone saying it sounds much better in the demo and they ruined the song now. Most if not all the demos we've heard were through either a (webcam?) mic on ustream and to be honest that's not the best quality in the world. Which brings it to a point that it comes across to me that people are claiming shitty quality is somewhat or much better than the finished product.

The other side, the lyrical content, I have nothing to say. If the lyrics were better in the demo, it would be easier to accept.


Anyone agree?

#2
Cameron

Cameron

    I'm richer than you

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,615 posts
All I can say is that people who seem to think Walking Away sounds worse either have fucked up hearing or are just winging for the sake of it. I really don't understand.

#3
ndube

ndube

    Rockstar

  • Members
  • 11,390 posts
For me personally, sound quality is everything. I listen to music with more of a producer mindset nowadays and less of an emotional aspect, hence a lot of my comments regarding sound quality and production. It all depends on the song too. I've done a lot of griping regarding the song, Walking Away, specifically, and I can still say I am not happy with the final mix vs. the mix they used for the HBO show (see: Walking Away thread, I posted a link to the full version as well, which is on a back dated Armpit news page). In most past cases the demos are worse as they're supposed to be, however in this case I actually feel differently.

With todays technology it is much easier for bands and musicians to produce very high quality sounding music with nothing more than a few mics, their computer and a decent recording program (Logic and/or Pro Tools). So when the original mixed version of Walking Away was presented it was not viewed as a demo, that was how the song originally sounded. However, on the album they altered the mix which really took away from the ambiance, feel and tone of the original mix, which suited the song much better in my opinion. This is probably the only case where I can cite an example, because more often than not the demo is always worse as it is more of a musical sketch than a finished product.

As for lyrics, I pay less attention to words than I do the sound of a persons voice, how they're utilizing it as an instrument within the band, and how it is produced and mixed within the song. That's what catches my ear, and as far as vocals go, Fred nailed on this record (with some minor exceptions which I don't need to go into).

Hope that helps to clarify a little bit. Nice thread too.

Edited by ndube, 26 June 2011 - 06:46 PM.


#4
Kaczor

Kaczor

    Gaining Respect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 617 posts
It's because demo had some space for imagination, and our mind invented sounds and riffs where they were surrounded by buzz. Now it's all on plate. So sometimes compared to imaginated riffs and sounds... Reality bites. But hasn't mom said not to listen to the demos?!

#5
ndube

ndube

    Rockstar

  • Members
  • 11,390 posts

It's because demo had some space for imagination, and our mind invented sounds and riffs where they were surrounded by buzz. Now it's all on plate. So sometimes compared to imaginated riffs and sounds... Reality bites. But hasn't mom said not to listen to the demos?!


I disagree. As a matter of fact I'm listening to the version I prefer on headphones right now.

1. There is no buzz
2. The instruments are much clearer, as the drums and bass aren't overpowering Wes and Lethal
3. The vocals are properly balanced with the rest of the music, especially at the end when Fred layered his clean / screaming vocals

No need for my mind to invent anything other than what I was actually hearing.

Now, I have the leaked album version playing directly afterwards with the same headphones at the same volume

1. The drums are too beefy, compressed, and up in the mix for the feel of the song in my opinion
2. Because of the drum production, the bass needed to be raised, which takes away from Wes and Lethal in the softer parts
3. The only vocals that are really prominent at the end of the song are the screaming vocals leaving little room to hear the actual melody Fred is singing

Of course, everyone will have their own opinion, but that's how my ears hear the two versions and I know which I enjoy better as well as what I feel suits the feel of the song better.

But, at the end of the day I'm just a big music nerd with too much time on my hands. Sue me. :P

Edited by ndube, 26 June 2011 - 07:03 PM.


#6
Morphine_Overdose

Morphine_Overdose

    Come get some.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,253 posts
Duh. You like the demos better, but demos are demos and are not representative of the final material. There's only one Gold Cobra, deal with it.

#7
Freddy D Fan

Freddy D Fan

    just an ordinary fella

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,674 posts
I think Morph just said it best. It is what it is, and it ain't changing.

#8
FrankCastle

FrankCastle

    Mr Not Sure

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,582 posts
every demo i had was just 30/1.00 clips full of distortion/bass, im much happier with my actual copy of gold cobra!

#9
Kaczor

Kaczor

    Gaining Respect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 617 posts
I was talking about ustream demos.
But.. I like album version of Walking Away more. It's more dynamic and biased.

#10
Stalemate

Stalemate

    A Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,140 posts
The only one for me is killer in you, the ending was mixed differently it sounded much better.

#11
Sage

Sage

    Dedicated

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 590 posts
Imagine Killer In You without the echoes - like in the demo. Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerp. I also prefer the Walking Away mix from last year.

By the way, most people don't talk about the sound quality when using the "demo was better" argument.

Edited by Sage, 26 June 2011 - 09:26 PM.


#12
Reprise

Reprise

    Speaking in Colours

  • Moderators
  • 19,665 posts
Personally I prefer the production on all the Ustream samples and leaks. They were just so much grittier, you know? The distortion was killer. Now everything sounds too "polished" and "perfect". It's just not right.

#13
mzupeman

mzupeman

    I AM THE DRUNK FAIRY! I GRANT YOU DRUNK!

  • Moderators
  • 13,365 posts
I'm happier with every song on Gold Cobra vs the demos as well... except for Walking Away. Again, the problem is that the production on Walking Away is the same as the rest of the album... which isn't inherently bad since it worked for the rest of the songs, but Wes' vibe is what really sells Walking Away... it was prominent yet ambient at the same time. Kind of 'spacey'. But with the 'album' type mix, it's not spacey anymore, just background stuff.

#14
ndube

ndube

    Rockstar

  • Members
  • 11,390 posts
My point exactly.

#15
sublimeric

sublimeric

    Sidecar Radio

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,366 posts

I'm happier with every song on Gold Cobra vs the demos as well... except for Walking Away.


I think we can pretty much agree on this as a community ;-)

I just deleted the album version and replaced it with the demo on my iPod. Problem solved. :)

#16
woo4u

woo4u

    A Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,191 posts
the chorus in 90.2.10; killer in you; walking away. we have the previous mix of walking away, so this error is solvable. my biggest problem is 90.2.10, the aye! aye! aye! doesn't add anything there and the guitar in the demo sounded sharper and was more exposed. also in killer in you, the echo is pointless and the huge guitar moment lost its dynamic.

#17
Requiem

Requiem

    Brace for the glory as you stare into the sky.

  • Legends
  • 8,164 posts
I don't think anyone can deny that Los Angeles sounded significantly better in the demo. The tempo was faster, giving it a more furious-nature, and the verse riff had this insane spacey sound. It's completely absent in the studio version.

#18
Zordan

Zordan

    A Known Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,002 posts
how the fuck demo WA sounds better? How the fuuuck? just listen kick, snare, toms... There is no them in demo, but u can hear them in album version, screaming is lounder which is great... And mix is better at all.

#19
Reprise

Reprise

    Speaking in Colours

  • Moderators
  • 19,665 posts
Exactly. Really do agree with Zordan, only I think the clean vocals in the final screaming section shouldn't have been lowered quite so much. But overall, the final mix is blatantly superior. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's definitely better than the demo.

#20
ndube

ndube

    Rockstar

  • Members
  • 11,390 posts

I just deleted the album version and replaced it with the demo on my iPod. Problem solved. :)


I plan on doing he same.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users